PI4MM28: The Pro’s Guide To Becoming A More Interesting Person. (A stunning new life awaits you. Formula included.)

Psych Insights for Modern Marketers - Kevin Rogers & John Carlton

PI4MM28 Show Bullets:

[07:00 ] The brutally honest truth about why everyone definitely thinks you’re a boring snob

[14:46] A-Lister John Carlton shares what makes people like you personally interesting to him

[16:02] How both shoes dropping might be the best thing to happen to you, and how it makes you interesting as h-e-double hockey sticks

[17:05] Why sharing your hard knock life lets you beat the “big fish” companies, and how to do it right the first time

[18:02] Why story-less, tight-laced wallflowers won’t succeed in modern marketing while authentic storytellers… even obnoxious loud-mouths… always will

[19:21] How oversharing via word diarrhea can be just as bad for business. Instead, use Carlton’s template to find the authenticity sweet spot

[21:23] Skip to here to get the word-for-word story formula that turns drop-dead snoozers into something worth your ear-time

[31:20] John’s trick to spotting and befriending the truly interesting “cranks” in your area. (Think Hunter S. Thompson types.)

[32:38] How your interpersonal caste system is making you a boring Stepford robot.

[33:16] What to do instead to revitalize your boring life so you can tell interesting stories via the story formula

Text bullets written by Lynn Swayze
You can reach Lynn at Lynnswayze.com

PLUS – For this show, for the first time, we’ve got a fresh set of longtime PI4MM listener Henry Bingaman’s weirdly wonderful…

Emoji Show Bullets

Psych Insights, Kevin Rogers, John Carlton

Emoji bullets created by Henry Bingaman
You can reach Henry at http://www.henrybingaman.com


Interesting Life Story Reframe

Star IconTip: Do this exercise as an improv writing exercise. Think of a topic to fill the first bracket, but no further. Then go stream of consciousness until it’s done. Should take no more than 7-10 minutes. The true value of this exercise is to train your brain to tell interesting stories “on it’s feet”. 

Here’s the formula:

Back when I was [self-deprecating incongruous phrase], I desperately wanted to [do something clearly outrageous and unattainable]… but I [was hobbled by something]. This provided the best possible lesson: [lesson, phrased as an idiot lucking out].

What does this mean for you? Simple: If a moron like me can succeed, then you can, too.


Back when I was a delusional teenager drowning in hormones, I desperately wanted to screw all the junior varsity cheerleaders… but the fact I couldn’t even speak around them presented a rather serious challenge. Then I stumbled upon “How To Win Friends And Influence People” by Dale Carnegie, and suddenly a whole new world of humiliation and wonder opened up for me. I never did nail a cheerleader, but I did get to 2nd base with a pom-pom girl as a junior, which was HUGE for a former loser like me. And it made for a MUCH more interesting senior year. (Whew.)

What’s this mean for you? Simple. If a total introverted, goofy-looking loser like me can conquer crippling social anxiety and actually have a real social life (that includes fooling around with pom-pom girls in the back seat), then imagine what these secrets can do for a stud like you.


Back when I was a worn-out road comic with no money and less business smarts, I desperately wanted to move to Hollywood and start earning big bucks writing sitcoms. The fact that I’d never written a script in my life made it a bit awkward when friends introduced me to agents who asked to “read my spec”. So I went out and bought the most lamely titled book on the subject: How To Write For Television by Madeline Dimaggio. It proved to be exactly what I needed. No complex psychology behind 4-dimensional character development. Just the facts, ma’am backed up with solid examples. Turned out I had a knack for sitcom writing. I borrowed a neighbor’s computer with scriptwriting software (comes free with a Los Angeles driver’s license) and single-finger typed my legal pad scribble into something that looked like a real pro piece of work. The jokes weren’t too bad either. I never did get the gig I wanted at the time, but I did get a lot of positive feedback from producers and most importantly, fell in love with writing… which proved prophetic in my second life as a copywriter.

What does this mean for you? Simple: If a broke-ass hippie comic like me can grow the seed of a new life after reading one boring book and jamming out a spec script, then you can do it, too.

Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Psych Insights for Modern Marketers…

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Every self-respecting Psych Insights listener should also…

Read deeply at John’s blog, “The Rant”.

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12 thoughts on “PI4MM28: The Pro’s Guide To Becoming A More Interesting Person. (A stunning new life awaits you. Formula included.)

  1. bernie

    dear kevin! its a good way to exercise writing creativity , many thanks !
    update me on your list. Tks bernie

  2. Andy

    Back when I was wayward deli worker, I desperately wanted to make my job more interesting. But the only way I came up with how to do that was almost too outrageous. We were supposed to announce when new chicken sandwiches were in the hot case, and I thought, since we’re going on the intercom anyway, why not entertain people? The idea was a “Ba-GAWK!” and then something like the Patty Duke theme tune, with chicken-sandwich lyrics. I’ll spare you the jingle but it’s in my book “Johnny Starks Deli Messiah” if you are interested in a zany read. Anyway although I was scared to actually get on the loudspeaker, luckily I had a sidekick, Rose, the sandwich lady, who helped with background “Ba-gawk!”s. Seeing the stunned smiles of customers (who would come from across the supermarket to heed the call) gave me a new perspective on how the workday can play out. Maybe you can do something similar, with or without the clucking, in your situation.

    1. Kevin

      Andy, what the cluck!?

      (Couldn’t resist — John HATES puns)

      I love this story. A public announcement system is exactly how I got my start in entertainment. I worked in a grocery store and we announced store closing at night. One night I got the idea to do a Twilight Zone theme and started with the jingle “do, do, do, do — do, do, do, do…” then the announcer: “you’re walking through the grocery store, shopping for things you need…” then whatever bizarre twist I put on it. So the manager comes walking towards me quickly and says, “Rogers! You’d be in a lot of trouble right now… if that wasn’t so damn funny!”

      Saved by the laugh once again. Sounds like you can relate.

      Thanks for the memories.

      1. Andy

        Haha! Wow I’m glad I came back and checked on the post. Thanks Kevin, that reply made my day (even if I will have “do, do, do, do” stuck in my cluckin’ head for the next several hours 🙂

  3. Nick

    Back when I was a suicidally depressed clown in the traveling circus, I desperately wanted to make the children laugh. I threw pies… made cute, little balloon sculptures… I even juggled more swords than the star of a bukkake shoot. But, alas, my routine was routinely rejected; my talents dismissed.

    Then, one lucky night, I saw the movie “It.” That’s when everything in my act changed. Here was a clown that didn’t take sh*t from any crapfaced young punk.

    I liked that. I liked that so much, the very next night I opened up my act differently. I placed one hand on my heart, the other gripping my balls, and exclaimed, “You little sh*ts are either gonna laugh, or I WILL EAT YOUR SOULS!”

    Then, I proceeded to spit fire, piss blood, and (pretty much) terrorize my way to a standing ovation. I was such a hit that night, a few of the parents in the crowd got together and mailed me a nice letter. Something about them wanting to meet up with me in some government building somewhere. I dunno, I couldn’t get past the first paragraph… too many fancy words and run-on sentences.

    Anyway, what does this all mean for you? Simple: If a sad, slightly psychotic circus clown like me can put a smile on people’s faces, then you can, too.

  4. mark grove

    Thank you so much for the tips guys on telling interesting stories.

    What John said about everything we do in life being an interesting story
    takes me back to an old friend of mine. Even when he went to 7-11
    for Ben and Jerry’s he turned it into a story if nothing happened.

    I used to think why are you telling me this boring story? But
    now I figured it out. Everything is a story,but most of us don’t see it
    that way including me.

    John and my friend Arthur made me see that.

    Keep the podcasts comin’ Kevin and John.

    1. John Carlton

      Life is a tale, that’s for sure. It’s just better when you see the mini-adventures inherent in everything you do…

  5. Richard

    Nice work again guys. Really loved the points raised. Gonna see if I can make this work. Seeing as I am the dullest person on the planet I might be some time.

  6. Will Chou

    Back when I was a shy, socially-excluded teenager, I desperately wanted to be successful, wealthy, and dating the hottest girls … but I was stopped by all the obstacles that prevent most low status teens from achieving those goals — like the scrawny physique and lack of charisma that made me low status in the first place. Then, I lucked out by stumbling across the world of self-help, which taught me the best possible lesson in life: that I could improve my results in life and my success wasn’t pre-determined.
    Suddenly, my world became one of struggle, frustration, and steady improvement. I am not rich yet. Nor am I dating a supermodel. But I have come a far way and I am still young so there’s plenty of time to grow from here.
    In fact, a couple years ago, I was a helpless unemployed graduate who never kissed or dated a girl. Now, I am happily employed at a profession I love with great upward potential, I have went on my first five dates, and I am seeing muscle gains from doing Crossfit and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
    My life has gone from a depressing version of Groundhog Day where I would play video games alone each night … to one where I do interesting, new things.
    Yesterday, I got choked out for the first time by a blue belt so hard my throat hurt every time I breathed for the next day. And next week, I am going to a shooting range for the first time with my date to fire my first gun. Over the last year, I even played competitive beach volleyball, having learned from scratch. And don’t get me started on the Salsa and Bachata classes I have taken.
    What does this mean for you? Simple: If a helpless, below-average kid like me can start changing his life, then a stud like you can too.

  7. Christina Heystek

    Back when I was a flat broke, depressed business owner, I wanted to turn the business around into a fun place. I needed some fun in my life, but I was stressed out and hobbled by insecurities.

    Searching for sales & marketing info, I stumbled upon Kevin’s podcasts. I fell in love with writing. I started to get out to meet interesting people. Who knew that writing could be so much fun!

    If a boring old woman like me can turn my life into a fun adventure, then you can too.


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